Skilled labor shortage? A demotivated Gen Z? Jürgen Hesse sees other problems in the economy. The Berlin graduate psychologist is convinced: Germany could be many times more productive if there weren’t so many managers with disturbed personalities.

FOCUS online: In your book with the succinct title “My boss is crazy, is yours too?” (Econ) you write: “Most bosses lack the ability to listen, empathy and understanding for the wishes and problems of their employees.” How did you come to this conclusion? As someone who has been advising people and organizations on problems in the world of work for over 40 years?

Jürgen Hesse: My experience is one thing. In fact, there are solid studies on this. Depending on which one you use, you might end up with six, sometimes over 20 percent, problematic bosses with severe to catastrophic traits of interpersonal dyslexia.

So what is that?

Hesse: Dealing with the employees under your supervision is characterized by a lack of understanding, insensitivity and even inhumane treatment. The initial spark for me personally was a survey by the personnel consulting company Kienbaum in the 90s. Here they actually managed to question numerous unsuspecting managers in depth psychologically…

Why clueless managers?

Hesse: Because they had no idea how far they would devolve. A third showed unusual, even pathological behavior. This was oil for the mill for my colleague, Hans Christian Schrader, and me, as we were currently writing a book on this topic and had almost suspected something like this. Now we had in black and white what was supposed to be kept under wraps.

Do you think the results of the survey shouldn’t have been published?

Hesse: That’s right. Someone who knew us and knew what we were currently working on saw it as his job to inform us. Good thing, we urgently need a different awareness of the topic. As I said, a third of bosses behave in such a way that the people under them suffer seriously, sometimes even massively.

And the remaining two thirds?

Hesse: Of course not all bosses are boo and bah. A third receive good reviews. Another third is, I would call it, room for improvement. You already know the last third. I would mostly describe these bosses as disturbed or even sick. Of course the numbers are frightening.

On the other hand: You just have to ask around and ask those around you: Who has ever experienced a difficult boss? Everyone usually knows more than just one story. If we calculate with the six percent from the mild study, out of four to five million managers in Germany we get 300,000 absolutely highly problematic bosses.

That’s a number. Depending on how many employees report to these managers, we must assume that there is a breathtaking number of people working under terrible conditions in our country. If we take the Kienbaum study as a basis, according to which a third suffer from their superiors, that means 15 million people are affected out of 45 million employees in Germany!

However, a lot has probably changed since the 1990s. Keyword New Work: flatter hierarchies, participatory leadership…

Hesse: The German Federation of Trade Unions (DGB) conducts a survey on employee satisfaction every two years. Between 40 and 60 percent of the answers are always negative. There is talk of a climate of fear, of people not daring to say anything really critical… Unfortunately, I can’t see a real trend for the better. After all, the problem itself is being noticed more, as can be seen from the fact that these surveys exist.

And now? What would have to happen?

Hesse: It’s very clear: people who are given responsibility for others should be selected more carefully and checked better.

Some kind of TÜV?

Hesse: A good thought. You need a vehicle check-up every two years. When you have a child, there is no such thing. But at least there is a youth welfare office and hopefully attentive neighbors who will report if there are obvious problems.

As far as problematic bosses go – there is nothing there. It may be that the boss has great success and blood on his hands. Or he has blood on his hands – and no success. In both cases, the manager cheerfully carries on. Unfortunately, this often happens even when the problem is obvious to everyone around.

Are you thinking of a specific case here?

Hesse: Indeed, I know someone who is doing his doctorate on this subject and who experienced an interesting study at the VW Group. One department stood out because it had an extremely high rate of sickness. Since it was obvious that this might have something to do with the boss, he was transferred to another department.

More precisely: one with extremely low sick leave. You may have already guessed: within a very short time the tide turned. In the previously “healthy” department, sickness reports increased. The beleaguered employees, on the other hand, seemed to relax with their new boss, they were now feeling much better and working more productively and sickness rates fell.

Jürgen Hesse studied psychology at the Free University of Berlin from 1973 to 1981. Since 1992 he has headed the Office for Career Strategy, which offers advice at eight locations nationwide. Together with the psychologist Hans Christian Schrader, Hesse has published guides on the most important topics relating to applications and the world of work.

They always talk about “boss”. So the manager was male?

Hesse: In the example described, yes, but of course there are also bad bosses. Women are generally more willing to ask questions and listen. And that’s a big plus in terms of leadership quality. A minus, on the other hand, seems to be the penetration into the upper levels of companies, organizations and politics. To put it simply: the higher up you meet someone, the greater the chance that they have problematic personality traits.

Do you have an explanation for this?

Hesse: Again, to simplify things a little: people who are given leadership positions and exercise power change – not always, but often. Numerous studies show that the exercise of power causes very typical personality and behavioral changes. I think we have to honestly admit that we humans are all susceptible to this to some extent. This makes it all the more important, of course, that there is a corrective measure. People are capable of learning, and bad habits can be unlearned.

Hand on heart: Would you want to work in an organization under the circumstances described?

Hesse: I’m 72, I’ve been self-employed for decades – so the question doesn’t really arise. But if you like, I would say: Yes, I think I would be confident enough to do it. I think I have a certain nose for the typical problem areas. Where can I manage to come to terms? And where not, where do I draw the line? I would probably recognize that sooner than others.

And what advice do you have for people who don’t have this experience? What do you say to a young professional?

Hesse: Be careful! You may have just passed the first hurdle, been hired and are feeling euphoric. Maybe your boss seems likeable, maybe he even says things that flatter you. Again, watch out!

How exactly does this work, this paying attention?

Hesse: It’s very important that you act cautiously at first. Reserved, but without remaining passive. The so-called “onboarding” phase is, as the name suggests, about getting on board well. I recommend being proactive during this time, especially in order to have a good relationship with your boss. So, ask your boss for an appointment, ideally right after the first week of work.

And what do you say then?

Hesse: Very simple. “Can I ask you something? What have you heard about my work?” Or: “How do you assess the situation? What do you recommend for me?” After the second week of work you can repeat the whole thing in a friendly manner. And perhaps finish with a question like “Can I get in touch again in 14 days?” Over time, the distance between conversations can be increased. It’s crucial that everything doesn’t collapse after three months in your new job.

What is the idea behind the strategy?

Hesse: That you at least try to create the best possible climate on your own initiative. I would initially assume that there is an obligation to deliver.

If you fulfill these requirements, are you prepared to face difficult bosses?

Hesse: Unfortunately not, but the chances are a little better. One advantage is that you understand more quickly and better what your boss is like, what makes him tick. And if he is in a difficult mood or even, as you just said, sick?

Hesse: Then you should look deep within yourself. What exactly is bothering me? If you can see clearly here, you can proceed strategically again.

Namely?

Hesse: Escape to the front: A one-on-one conversation with the boss in which it is openly stated that you are not really happy. That you may have the impression that you are not meeting the company’s expectations or your own. Of course there are bosses who then start blustering. And there are those who chicken out.

But there are also those who pass the ball back, who might say: “That’s right, your English isn’t particularly good.” Or: “We were hoping for more with your Excel skills.” If something like that is pronounced, you can try negotiate a compromise. For example, by offering to do further training. There are definitely difficult bosses with whom you can find a level with in this way.

Admittedly, it sounds like: In many cases, this approach doesn’t help.

Hesse: That’s right, that’s how it is. Especially since at first glance it’s often difficult to distinguish between a boss who is willing to compromise and a faker. I’m thinking of the type of manager who makes you seem charming, who introduces the new guy as “my new star”. According to the motto: He will show you how it can be done better… A pattern that may already be so annoying for the workforce because it is constantly being repeated…

… and that’s probably not exactly to the advantage of the team’s newcomer?

Hesse: You say so. Of course, it’s tragic when everyone sees through what’s going on – except you. But if you notice, then there’s only one thing to do: become independent of your boss. Don’t let the whole thing get to you so much. That’s easy to say, I know.

But?

Hesse: You can sometimes get a certain amount of relief through smaller measures. If you share your experiences, for example. Maybe not necessarily with colleagues, but with family, with friends.

I generally see the one-on-one conversation that I just recommended as a one-off attempt. At this point I will be very clear to those seeking advice: It is a misconception that you can change a boss who is clearly disturbed. The change should better start with yourself.

Talk to friends, you just guessed. What else helps?

Hesse: When I realize what type of boss I’m dealing with. Let’s take the schizoid boss. In other words, someone who doesn’t like to show himself, who seems invisible and always sends a biting dog for the unpleasant tasks. I would definitely avoid a boss like that!

Sometimes distance really is half the battle here. Or let’s take the depressed boss – although female bosses come to mind here. The classic: The conversations tend to get intimate, the superior reveals private things, says how difficult it is for her, how unfair the world is.

Be careful, I say again in this case. Anyone who gets involved at this level is easily exploited. Back to the factual level – that’s better than feeling like you’re being bullied by supposedly confidential conversation content.

One type of boss that you describe quite extensively in your book is the bully.

Hesse: That’s also tricky. Because spontaneously you might want to shout back. However, this only works in one out of ten cases, if at all. Better: let the boss yell first, let him yell. Pause in the meantime. Look at the floor as much as possible. Or on the ceiling. Anywhere, just not in the boss’s eyes, because that will provoke him further.

And then say as calmly as possible: “I need to think about that. Allow me to go.” With a little distance, it is easier to examine yourself: Do I want to give this matter or my attitude to this matter another chance? Or is the time ripe for a career change?

According to your statements, the risk of going from bad to worse in the latter case is probably not exactly small.

Hesse: The problem is actually the strained structures that we find everywhere here in Germany.

Interim question: Do you emphasize Germany?

Hesse: In fact, countries like the USA and Canada, Scandinavia and even seemingly cozy Switzerland have had the issue of toxic bosses on their agenda for much longer. Also how this thing called passing on power in structures generally works.

How come?

Hesse: To put it simply: Bosses develop people who they get along best with as their successors. The boosted ego of the individual may count more than the atmosphere in the entire team and technical-constructive input. As a fundamentally positive, optimistic person, I assess the situation as follows: Unfortunately, there is currently far too little movement on the crucial adjustment screws. But at least there seems to be a certain awareness of the problem now.

In your opinion, where are the crucial adjustment screws?

Hesse: Where power is handed over. What we need are systems and committees that take a better, perhaps more honest look at what is happening from a distance. As I said, getting a manager to change himself is almost hopeless. But what is possible is to sensitize those who select and use subsequent forces.

So the boss above the boss leads the way. And when it comes to specific changes in the workflow: the department head or even the small team leader is in demand. They should be taken into prayer: What is happening here, what is going on? The fact that grievances are courageously identified is the be-all and end-all if the German economy wants to get back on track.